India Elections 2009: Congress was confident; BJP was over-confident! - Instablogs
India Elections 2009: Congress was confident; BJP was over-confident!
Aneez , Mumbai: May 23 2009
Made Popular May 23 2009
India :

India Elections 2009: Congress was confident; BJP was over-confident!

I’m literally enjoying the results of the Lok Sabha Elections 2009. Apart from a thumping victory by the Congress, the other thing which is working positively to keep me entertained is the ongoing series of claims and refutations made by NDA supporters on IB forum.

One of the most spoken excuses was the low voter turnout percentage, which was addressed by me in my last article. Now I’ll try to clear the doubts about one more hilarious claim that is repeatedly coming from NDA supporters.

“Congress did not expect to perform so well. It was by luck or by the stupidity of the Indian voter that Congress secured so many seats. Congress was not confident about a win (by this margin).”

Well, I want to quote some statements from both the BJP and the Congress (given prior to the results) and present their views about the expected verdict. The following statement shows both the foresight and understanding of the situation by both the parties. Please help yourself;

On May 8th, 2009

L K Advani said;

BJP would go far ahead of the Congress and emerge as the single largest party after the Lok Sabha elections. (He told reporters he had) no doubt that the Congress would be left much behind the BJP after the Parliamentary elections.

Party leader Kapil Sibal said;

The party is running towards the 200 (seat) mark. It will be a Congress-led coalition government. The kind of information we are getting from the states that went to polls in the last four phases. We are well poised to form the government.

Again, on May 14th, 2009 (after the exit polls)

NDA Convenor Sharad Yadav said;

I have no faith in exit polls. The NDA will get majority and we will form the government headed by L K Advani.

Congress spokesman Abhishek Manu Singhvi said;

We will prove you (media organizations) wrong by winning much more seats than anticipated by the exit polls. We are not entering into any speculative numbers, but are confident of forming a stable government.

Now let’s see what the exit polls predicted;

NDA -185 to 196 seats.
UPA - 190 to 205 seats.

And… the results;

NDA - 157 (BJP - 116)
UPA - 262 (Congress - 206)

Now tell me, who was better educated about the elections and the expected verdict? BJP or Congress?? You can’t deny that Congress had a better grip on the elections. It was fully focused and confident about its performance. Congress didn’t win by luck nor was it startled by the results.

On the other hand, BJP was over-confident and lacked the vision to see the trends. BJP was just busy building castles on cloud (read: Hawa Mahal). And ultimately it got shell-shocked by the results.

Allow me to clear one more misconception

Someone on IB has repeated this a million times that Congress has 138 millionaire MPs. This has been highlighted in various different contexts but the major reason I can see is, he wants to prove that being a millionaire is a crime or it helps in swaying the election results.

So, let me present you the numbers for both MPs who are millionaire and MPs who have criminal cases against them.

Candidates with criminal cases against them-
Lesser crimes;
Congress – 108
BJP – 106

Heinous crimes (such as murder);
Congress – 39
BJP – 40

Millionaire candidates-
Congress – 244
BJP – 165

(Note: The above list is out of 6,700 nominees who contested the first four phases of Lok Sabha elections. Anyone who wants to add the updated list may please post it as a comment)

Well, I hope now this hilarious statement (about the 138 Congress MPs) will stop. Moreover, we also get an idea about the candidates within each party with criminal cases against them, and the seriousness of their crime!

This is all for now. Will try to get some more interesting facts next time to clear some more misconceptions. Have a good day!

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May 23 2009
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2 Stars
Shweta
Shimla, India
Perfect heading, which explains why BJP lost so badly.
2 Stars
Gaurav
Banglore, India
Aneez
It’s not a question of confidence or overconfidence. What matters is the policy and people find the policies of Congress better than that of the BJP.
2 Stars
Sonu
Thiruvananthapuram, India
BJP lost the focus on it's agenda and issues half way through the elections.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
Yes Gaurav, I totally agree with you. I’m not saying Congress won because of high confidence. It definitely won because of its policies. By this article I just wanted to refute certain claims that Congress didn’t expect such an outcome. And my article is fully dedicated for that purpose. :-)
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
Sonu has given a valid point. This was clearly evident on their faces.
2 Stars
Christos
Liverpool, United Kingdom
A great Victory of Congress, the politicians but not of the people. People want change of dead the corrupt democratic system and appoint a government which can induce real growth. But, unfortunately they are not allowed to cast Vote as part of big political and media conspiracy. A true victory of Indian people will be the day when 100% of Indian population will cast vote not just 40-50 % of uninformed voters who vote just for money and a pot of liquor.
2 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
I gave a star to your comment. :-)

I love such entertaining comments in serious discussions. It helps to ease the brain while progressing with serious debate. Thanks! Guys like you are always welcome. Though they appear off-track n hilarious, it makes the atmosphere light n cheerful. You may come again after a while, with one more of these gems.

I enjoyed that ’pot of liquor’ part. I’m unfortunate, no one offered me even a glass :-(

I wish I were in UK.
2 Stars
Shweta
Shimla, India
Advani had the best chance to become PM this time, but being the narrow minded selfish idiot he really is, he made a mess of it. Insulting MMS, defending Varun Gandhi’s remarks and whole host of other controversies led to the inevitable defeat of the BJP/NDA
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
You forgot those hilarious radio ads! I loved them even more than the songs :-)
1 Stars
@Shweta


..being the narrow minded selfish idiot he really is..”

Mind your language,Shwetaji.

Criticism should be done in proper words.You seem to forget the fact that Advaniji is the head of the major Opposition party in the world’s biggest democracy !!

Anyway, I agree with subtle meaning of your comment that BJP failed to connect with the voters.It’s time for it to be more realistic !!
2 Stars
Shweta
Shimla, India
You seem to forget the fact that Advaniji is the head of the major Opposition party in the world’s biggest democracy !!


So! How does that matter to me?

Respect is not demanded, its earned!
1 Stars
@Shweta

Well,the point is that criticism should not be be misplaced.One is least interested in knowing whether given fact matters to you or not.One is also not interested in knowing whether you respect him or not.I am just reminding you that your comments are directed at a person who is not only associated with a high office but also a high profile leader for more than five decades.

He deserves criticism in right words even if you don’t have an iota of respect for him !!
1 Stars
Shweta
Shimla, India
He is getting what he deserves...and i still don't care, so don't waste any more time of both you and me.
2 Stars
Avadhut
Calicut, India
I congratulate Congress to emerge as winner.Even Congress was not expecting such a victory. You are right BJP has lost because of certain reasons & they will go down further by the time next elections comes. But that is not a great sign for india.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
I respect your sentiments and value your comment. However, if you read my article, you will realize that Congress was totally expecting such a victory. Kapil Sibbal gave the perfect figure well before the polls fully ended. :-)

Lets see what ’India’ wants... and whom ’India’ votes in the next elections.

Finally, I see this as the beginning of a good era!!
1 Stars
”However, if you read my article, you will realize that Congress was totally expecting such a victory. Kapil Sibbal gave the perfect figure well before the polls fully ended. :-)”

...........



”The results are pleasantly surprising, we were not so confident at the beginning but now we are very confident and we will secure a majority,” Congress leader Oscar Fernandez said.”

************************************



They then went into Ms. Gandhi’s residence where senior leaders soon gathered to bask in the “stunning performance.”

Even the most optimistic back-of-the-envelope calculations within the Congress had not given the party the kind of leads – crossing the 200 mark – that were being projected around 4 p.m. “We had not dreamt of such a result in our wildest dreams,” was how one key strategist of the Congress election campaign put it.

Besides the fact that the results belied all expectations – except in Orissa — Congress leaders were particularly pleased with the nationwide presence that the party had been able to register in this election.

(http://www.hindu.com/2009/05/17/stories/2009051759220800.htm)
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Arvind

Can you deny Kapil Sibbal’s statement? If you have any doubt, just follow the hyperlink and check for yourself. :-)

You have quoted someone else’s statement, but you should know that there are always some sort of mixed reaction when you are dealing with an event of such status. As far as I have heard the Congress leaders pre-elections, EVERYONE WAS CONFIDENT ABOUT THE VICTORY!

Moreover, you have not hyperlinked that web address (like you have done in your comment about Navin Jindal). I tried copy/pasting the address in my browser and searching it, but the page is not there.

I hope you have not made up this story. :-)

And... even if you post the proper link again and I see that statement, its not going to make any difference because you cannot deny ANY PART OF MY ARTICLE. Can you? They are facts which I have posted. And each link is working.

Now if you are not happy with it, you can prefer to keep silent, but please... don’t go out of context.

If you want to discuss anything else, or anyone else’s statement, or any others reaction, jot a new post or tell me to do it... we’ll bang our heads there.

Anyway, thanks for your participation.
1 Stars
@Aneez

http://www.hindu.com/2009/05/17/stories/2009051759220800.htm

I checked the link.It’s working.

” I hope you have not made up this story. :-)”

CERTAINLY NOT.Chor Ki Dhadi Me Tinka...Why did you ask this ? I hope you have not been doing so in all these years !! Anyway, I am not used to silly gestures nor I am interested in making them part of my habit.I have enough facts and bundle of right arguments to defend my viewpoints in a logical manner.

I agree with your observation that there are mixed reaction.The better way to arrive at proper conclusion would be take in account both the versions.You cannot ignore the fact that such a reaction has crime from one of the key strategists of Congress.I have also stated the opinion of q senior congress member.In fact, editorial in all the major dailies have declared the results to be ”surprising ” not only for the common man but also for the Congress leaders.

It’s also a common practice that almost all the leaders make tall claims before the declaration of results.Have there been not times when boastful claims of Congress leaders vanished into thin air after the declaration of results ?

Okay,Mr Sibbal got it right this time.But his opinion can’t be viewed in isolation.That has to be viewed in light of the actualities prevailing within the party and that includes views,opinion,viewpoints and moods of other leaders as well.

Alok Mehta,a senior journalist, said that Congressmen just cannot believe that they have won so many seats in UP as in the electioneering phase the party offices in UP always bore a deserted look.

I have no problem with the ”facts” disclosed in your article but my dear friend they are totally insufficient to frame a conclusive opinion that treats victory of Congress as some sort of ”certainty” !!
1 Stars
You cannot ignore the fact that such a reaction has come from one of the key strategists of Congress.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@Arvind

Chor Ki Dhadi Me Tinka...Why did you ask this ? I hope you have not been doing so in all these years !!

I was expecting you to get disturbed, you did get! However, you got a little too much. :-)

The ’Chor Ki Dhadi Me Tinka’ fits on you, who had given a dead link and rushed to re-present it again when questioned; not me, whose writings are always supported by facts and working links. :-)

Anyway, I loved it. Heard this ’chor ki...’ after a very long time. Thanks!

I have no problem with the ”facts” disclosed in your article but my dear friend they are totally insufficient to frame a conclusive opinion that treats victory of Congress as some sort of ”certainty” !!

Who said I wanted to frame a conclusion about anything, my friend??

I just presented my views and expected a debate. And thats what we do here on public forums, don’t we?

Public forums are not a place to form conclusions!!
1 Stars
@Aneez

Who told you that it’s a dead link?Is the information present in the comment revealed in the link or not?Is the information shared true or not?

Practice what you preach.

Somewhere in the comment you have requested that there should be no out of context remarks.You also stated that there is should be no room for conclusions.But even a very superficial reading of your comments is enough to reveal that it’s you who have more often than not diluted the debates by making unnecessary personal remarks, by drawing vain conclusions.It’s you who not only make out of the context remarks but also more concerned with insignificant and ignorable aspects of the debate.

”I was expecting you to get disturbed, you did get! However, you got a little too much. :-)”

”who had given a dead link and rushed to re-present it again when questioned”

Aren’t some silly conclusions/out-of-context views inherent in above comments ?

Had you moved ahead with information revealed the debate would have taken a qualitative turn but like usual you came up with unnecessary remarks that are quoted above.So it’s crystal clear to all the IB members that why the debates get focused on wrong aspects with your entry !!

”I just presented my views and expected a debate.”

U expect a debate..haha? However,you are very much bothered if the debate stretches as according to you it should end when real facts appear.That will only be done by other debaters!I mean only other debaters other than the writer-especially if I happen to be the writer- have the real side of the story.

Anyway, since there is nothing left to add in the debate,I bid adieu to the debate or it’s bound to turn into endless debate and if it’s you who is debating there is little doubt that it’s going to bore the participants as you have nothing more to add other than your out of context remarks even as you give the impression how conscious you are about the quality of the debate !!
2 Stars
Elias
Bombay, India
BJP lost due to:

1. Lack of leadership.
2. RAHUL GANDHI (But I don’t think he is an apt PM YET, its too early to judge!)
2 Stars
Sonu
Thiruvananthapuram, India
BJP was very strong in North India be it Punjab, Haryana,Delhi Himachal, Rajasthan, & U.P. But they have lost almost whole of North except Himachal. That is the biggest setback for them.
3 Stars
Shweta
Shimla, India
Not that Manmohan Singh was the reason why Congress won, but it was actually Advani the reason why BJP lost.
2 Stars
Bin
Meerut, India
srilanka has destroyed LTTE ,pak is destroying TALIBAN.
and its beginning of fall of R S S .
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Elias

You are true in every sense. I hope Rahul is not thrown in the arena in a hurry by the high command. He will prove a very good leader n PM, but its still time for that to happen!
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Sonu

And this will prove too costly for the BJP in the long run, especially U.P. defeat will prove a pain in BJP’s a*s.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Shweta

Where do you produce these gems? I mean, you dedicate some special hours to mine these diamonds before showering them in comment boxes?!
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Bin

RSS who?!

I thought RSS was dodo. Anyway, that’ll happen very soon. The cool wave Congress rule will force everyone to wear full pants!!
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
correction**

”cool wave OF Congress rule”

;-) Its better to make corrections or else I’ll invite some hilarious allegations.
2 Stars
Chandni
Allahabad, India
BJP’s campaign was based along the lines of ‘Bhay Ho’. They spoke about why Congress was bad, not why they were good. It isn’t the same thing.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
Very true. Negative campaigning and ’name calling’ doomed BJP.
1 Stars
Wonda L
Earth, Canada
ANEEZ
Very well written article
BJP should work on Media management.Take professional help to counter biased Media and beat them in their own game.Change of perception about BJP is a must.
Truth has never won any election to win over emotional humans and the better you understand how emotion works the easier it is to fool the masses
People are too busy to work through the huge amount of propaganda to figure out who is the best ,and the politicians know that —so a few lies a smile and voila a winner–take care
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
Thanks a lot for joining in, Wayne. And what you said makes perfect sense.
2 Stars
CROREPATI MPs


On the financial background of candidates, NEW, which based its analysis on the affidavits of candidates and nomination papers, said there are 300 crorepati MPs — a huge increase from 154 MPs in the last Lok Sabha. The wealthiest is Namma Nageswara Rao of the TDP from Khammam, with a declared asset of Rs. 173 crore. He is followed by Navin Jindal (Congress) from Kurushetra, Haryana, with declared assets of Rs. 131 crore.


http://www.hindu.com/2009/05/18/stories/2009051860302000.htm
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Arvind
Thanks for the input.

I hope you know Navin Jindal is a blue chip industrialist. :-) And I don’t need to explain that he didn’t become crorepati after joining Congress.

Navin Jindal’s faith in Congress is a big example to show that growth-oriented Industrialists prefer Congress, a growth-oriented party.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
Thanks again for the link Arvind. :-)

I found this interesting thing there;

BJP has the maximum number of (newly-elected) MPs with criminal cases — 42 MPs have criminal cases against them; 17 face serious criminal cases.
1 Stars
@Aneez

Present both the sides of coin.

The same link reveals that :

”The maximum criminal charges are against Congress MP Vitthalbhai Hansrajbhai Radadiya from Gujarat. He has a total of 16 cases, out of which five are of a serious nature.”

” The Congress closely follows with 41 MPs having criminal cases; 12 facing serious charges.”
2 Stars
Milind
Thiruvananthapuram, India
Arvind
Why both of you (You and Aneez) are indulging in an endless debate. Both the parties are the representatives of feudal and industrialist class. Ek naagnaath hai to doosra saampnaath. Both will bite the common men.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Arvind

Candidates with criminal cases against them-
Lesser crimes;
Congress – 108
BJP – 106

Heinous crimes (such as murder);
Congress – 39
BJP – 40

Millionaire candidates-
Congress – 244
BJP – 165


The above figures (not updated though) reflect in my article above, if you have bothered to spend your precious time reading it.

You can easily see that I didn’t try to hide that Congress was ahead in two of the comparisons. That shows that I always present both sides of the coin. :-)

I hope you will learn something from this comment and start reading the full article before jumping into debates. It seems you just read the header and introduction and form your opinion about any article and its writer.

In reality, its you who present only one side of the coin and turn a blind eye when others try to show you the other side. And that what stretches your debates to enormous lengths. (If you doubt this, go back and browse each and every debate you have entered till date, whether its your own post or others; you stick to your point, with your usual ”hahaha” even when the other debaters have shown you the truth and left the discussion) It’s not a good sign. I hope I’m not offending you, it’s a friendly advice. If you want, you can ask other members of IB, they will tell you how true my words are.

Come on man, be sport.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Milind

Hi,

I hope my reply to Arvind explains to you why the debate stretches and bores the participants. :-)

Anyway, I apologize from my side.
1 Stars
@Aneez

First some bogus conclusions.

”I hope you will learn something from this comment and start reading the full article before jumping into debates. It seems you just read the header and introduction and form your opinion about any article and its writer.”

”if you have bothered to spend your precious time reading it.”

”It seems you just read the header and introduction and form your opinion about any article and its writer.”

”And that what stretches your debates to enormous lengths. (If you doubt this, go back and browse each and every debate you have entered till date, whether its your own post or others; you stick to your point, with your usual ”hahaha” even when the other debaters have shown you the truth and left the discussion)”


”and turn a blind eye when others try to show you the other side.”


—–That’s how you participate in a debate.Then very innocently you ask or rather complain or rather express your concern that look debates have taken a wrong turn.Who are you trying to fool ? Me or the IB members ?

The harsh truth is that you are fooling only yourself with such silly and out-of-context remarks.Ironically, you are the one who is trying all the time on IB to emerge as defender of right attitude and gestures !! Stop faking right values.That’s all.

None of the remark you have made deal with the issue you have raised.

Before I quit the debate let me state that I have never commented without reading the article properly.I cannot claim that I am above normal errors and therefore like all others do make normal human errors and therefore nobody has any right to make vague conclusions.

I insisted on both sides of coin because it’s you who repeated the same set of facts in comment and hailed them as interesting as if you are stating them for the first time.If you can repeat the fact,what prevented you from repeating the other facts stated in the link ?

Now I quit the debate.I know that the writer is absolutely incapable of presenting facts other than making silly personal remarks amid vague conclusions.I have no problem with that but it makes other participants uncomfortable.I am quite aware of the fact that some are victim of deep rooted strange habits and prejudices!!I can tolerate but I know others can’t tolerate wayward comments in the name of debate.

Lastly,I am convinced that Congress was little aware of the outcome of results !!
1 Stars
@Milind

Only on two occasions a debate become endless or meaningless.If a debate becomes a long one because of some serious points,it’s a good sign.Nobody should complain as that allows the issue to be viewed from all possible angles.

However,if the debate becomes endless because of the insignificant points then it’s better to avoid such debates.

Sorry to you and others that I have to deviate away from the main theme in last two comments but I had no other choice other than an obvious deviation.

Now I quit the debate.
2 Stars
Shweta
Shimla, India
Oh! Thanks for the favor.
1 Stars
@Shweta

Yes,now you are free to criticize in a mindless manner!!
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Arvind

Thanks a ton for quitting the debate!!

And... now I am fully aware that you cannot participate in any debate without terming others’ claims as foolish n insensible.

I was so right, you stick to your point even after knowing that others are not interested! :)

And for your information, you just pretend that you are debating, in reality, you are just thrusting your opinion upon others.. by going out of context and writing page long comments when u are unable to answer the question.

In the previous comment box, you have jotted a whole ’adhyahy’ but you avoided the real thing that I asked you :-)

You had accused me of presenting only one side of coin, in response I cited you the figures from my article and proved that I am not one sided....

And what response you gave??

You termed me ’silly’, ’out of context’ and whatever, when you yourself know that ’you’ are out of context here!!

That’s called a pretender. And this is why I don’t like to have discussions with you, because you believe in thrusting your opinion on others as you are not capable of proving your point in a skillful manner.

Give me a single instance where I have posted out of context remark, and I will never participate in any debate!! (I know you will search but you won’t get it)

Moreover, you say,

None of the remark you have made deal with the issue you have raised.

Well, unfortunately, the debate was going in a proper manner..... but you entered and ruined the debate!!!! Participants like you don’t let the debate remain pure. My remarks were in response to your crude and personal and out of context statements!!

Anyway, this translates into a good thing...because you have decided to quit the comment.

A word of advice: Please enter into my debates ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO FOLLOW THE ETHICS. If you want to ruin the debate by showing your dumb and stubborn attitude... and burdening it with your one-sided statements without paying heed to others’ points... and if you don’t feel comfortable when someone proves you wrong... and if you can’t give away your habit of terming participants as ’fool’ and ’stupid’.... THEN STAY AWAY!!!

AS IT IS, YOUR PARTICIPATION DOES NOTHING GOOD FOR ANY DEBATE OR DISCUSSION!

BECAUSE OF YOU, I (and others too) LOSE OTHER GOOD PARTICIPANTS WHO ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN A GOOD TWO-SIDED DISCUSSION.

((YAAAWWWWWNNN)) Man, you really are a bad influence. See, even I have jotted this page long nonsense comment just by looking at your blabberings.

Anyway, hope to see you somewhere.
2 Stars
@Aneeez

I whole-heatedly accept your ”page long nonsense comment” !!

Good Bye
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
@ Arvind

Thanks! I owe it to you!! :-)

G’bye u2 and tc.
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
BTW, should I take that for ”whole-heartedly” or you did mean ”whole-heatedly” in all your good sense?

just asking.
1 Stars
Well, ”whole-heatedly” is a better word than ”whole-heartedly” in the present context !!
1 Stars
Aneez
Mumbai, India
Thanks for the clarification, Arvind.

And congratulations!!!!

You just grabbed the 50th comment on my post!!

And for that, you deserve something from me. Wait, lemme think...

(thinking...)




(still thinking)




(still thinking)




(still clueless what would make you happy)




Forget it, there’s nothing in this world that can make you happy and cheerful!!

Just jokin’ okay, I do have something for you.

A beautiful and rare song from Haqeeqat (old), I hope you like it.

Main ye sochkar uske dar se uThaa thaa
ke vo rok legi manaa legi mujhko

havaaoN mein lahraataa aataa thaa daaman
ke daaman pakaDkar biThaa legi mujhko

kadam aise andaaz se uTh rahe the
ke aavaaz dekar bulaa legi mujhko

magar usne rokaa
na usne manaayaa
na daaman hi pakaDaa
na mujhko biThaayaa
na aavaaz hi dii
na vaapas bulaayaa
main aahistaa aahistaa baDhtaa hi aayaa
yahaaN tak ke us se judaa ho gayaa main (2)
judaa ho gayaa main (4)


Have a nice day!!
2 Stars
Presenting a rare song from BR Chopra’s Nikaah (1982).

Singer : Salma Agha
Music : Ravi
Lyrics: Hasan Kamaal

****************************************


Dil Ke Armaan Aansuon Mein Beh Gaye
Hum Wafa Karke Bhi Tanha Reh Gaye

Zindagi Ek Pyaas Bankar Reh Gayi
Pyar Ke Kisse Adhoore Reh Gaye


Shayad Unka Aakhri Ho Yeh Sitam
Har Sitam Yeh Sochkar Hum Seh Gaye

Khudko Bhi Humne Mita Daala Magar
Faasle Jo Darmiyaan Thein Reh Gaye

****************************************
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